Will ChatGPT save or destroy sustainable travel?

AI is transforming the way we travel, from how we plan our trips to how we book hotels and trains. But is it really sustainable?

In this solo episode of Travel Devil, host Clara Francken explores the climate footprint of artificial intelligence and its growing role in tourism. From ChatGPT to Gemini, she looks at how AI tools can both harm and help our planet - AND how travelers can use them responsibly.

We break down:
• How much energy AI actually consumes compared to Google
• What travelers can do to limit the footprint of their tech use
• How AI can improve route planning, eco-hotel booking & local experiences
• Tools like EasyTrips, Biliki AI, GoodWings, Exploreo and Komoot making travel greener
• Why AI might one day fix its own carbon problem
• The balance between tech innovation and climate anxiety

This episode is for curious travelers, digital nomads, and eco-conscious listeners who want to explore smarter, without guilt.

Transcript

0:00

Welcome to travel Devil. I'm your host, Claire Francken. And in a world full of mass tourism, we're here to talk about unconventional travel. Let's get into it. Hi, welcome to travel Devil. I'm your host Clara Francken. And today we're talking about AI in tourism. Now why are we talking about this. It is booming right now. And so many people do have such a Gemini. Other apps on their phones, on their computers. It's around us. We cannot escape us. Escape it. And currently, it also is in a conversation with cop going on right now, the Conference of Parties in Belgium. I feel that this subject is needed to talk about because AI is great in many ways, but it does have a big footprint. And so it is also seen under a more daunting light by some conscious travelers, like people in the eco atmosphere in general. And I'm using it a lot. Like in the beginning I was thinking, okay, I want to use this AI tools ChatGPT for example, I've got it's open, but I don't want to use it too much because it's bad for the environment. But after you're getting used to it, you just keep using it. It's kind of addicting. It's so practical, is better than Google, is better than any other search engine you were using in the past. Sometimes it gives weird answers still, but it's so accurate and it's so helpful for so many ways. So today we're going to talk about what to expect from AI when it comes to tourism. Can we use it in a way that is helpful for us and beneficial for the tourism industry as a whole? And specifically also, is it sustainable to use it? I'm going to share everything that I know so far. I did a little bit of research for this episode, and I also talked to another guest about this subject. Sadly, this conversation I recorded with this other guest, he goes with me after the conversation. So I guess in the internet age, that's the thing that still happens. So I'm not going to publish that part, and I'm just going to dive right into it with everything I learned from the conversation, from my research, and just from talking with friends, because we learn a lot from each other, such as the which is basically the reason why I'm having this conversation right now. So first of all, I want you to think of when do you use AI? Are you using it for travel itineraries already, or are you using it to ask some personal questions, some life questions you have, I don't know, issues with your family and you want to know something. You're feeling sick because it's almost getting winter and you want to know, should I go to the doctor? Should I not? You are planning to buy something and you want to compare it with some other alternatives. AI is a tool we turn to. We cannot go back and we cannot deny it. Right? I've been using it a lot. I've got a free version. I know some people who have the paid version. It's very useful. Apparently. People talk WeChat or other Gemini AI tools with a voice notes. You can basically have it as your second person if you're home alone. I've been hearing people who are on their way home after work in the car, and to not feel alone. They have a conversation with their version of AI because it makes them feel less alone and they will learn something, They will be able to have a conversation with this AI tool, which is kind of crazy to think of because it's kind of becoming our buddy. So I want you to think of all the ways you're using AI already, and I think this is just going to go further in the future, is going to be more. It's going to be more omni valent. It's going to be more present. And I need to talk about that because it is good. It is useful. But is it also eco friendly? Can this technology also help us to to find more sustainable travel choices? That's what I want to get into today. So I think there's something in this episode for everyone, whether you're already using it a lot, if you're planning on using it, if you just think about it in such a negative way, like I was thinking about it in such a negative way for such a long time and didn't want to use it. But then I kind of had to, there's something in this episode for everyone, and I think we will I will be able to. Yeah, share a lot of insights about what I've been learning. So let's get into it. First of all, let's talk about the footprints. I want to acknowledge that traveling per se isn't sustainable. Obviously, we can find ways to travel sustainably. Sustainably. Which is what I'm kind of doing, which is what my podcast is about. But traveling always has a footprints. So I need to mention that what I've been for my research, that 9% of all human caused greenhouse gases have to do with aviation and tourism, for example, as well. This is a thing that I was researching flying compared to. For example, taking the train from Berlin to Paris emits roughly 30 up to 50 times more CO2 emission than the same trip by train. And knowing it. Now, we recently learned the news that the train between Paris and Berlin specific route I'm talking about now is going to be available again as a night train option. So basically you can travel overnight. That makes things so much easier. You don't have to take the plane anymore. You can you don't even have to pay for a place to sleep. If you're planning a journey, a trip like the journey you're on the road. Does the journey you're sleeping on. And this is coming back on track in March 2026, which is awesome. Because the road was going to be closed, the route was going to be closed. by the end of this year, 2025. But as besides the point, I'm just saying, flying has such a big impact. But even taking the train has an impact. Everything has CO2 footprint. Everything we're doing also, even if we are going to travel someplace, we might leave trash. We might leave literal footprints on locations. I mean, we can go all about this traveling in general, living, breathing is not sustainable in such a way. I mean, we can see it in a daunting way, but I want to think about the good part over the fact that I could maybe also help us to realize all of this and to find alternatives better than if you would say you have a Google search and you're looking for cheap ways to get to Paris, than probably you will first find all the flights if you're in Berlin, because there's a lot of ads going on, and it's also all about SEO, optimization and everything. I will probably also have those kind of features in the future I'm imagining, but right now you can also use it to really say, I want to find an alternative to flying and they will give you so many options. So that's the good thing, right? That's what I want to focus about. But first let me just share some other numbers. I don't know how interesting this is for you, but for me it gave me it it it kind of opened my eyes about the effect of AI and the footprint of it all. So I ICT and I energy use data centers worldwide used 460 terawatt per hour in 2022, which is about the same as a medium sized country, and are projected to exceed 20 terawatt per hour by 2026. And the big driver for this, obviously is AI, because training open AI, GPT three reportedly used thousands and 287 megawatt hour, which is kind of the same as powering 120 homes for a year. And this emitted about 550 tons of CO2. Okay. So I'm sending giving you a lot of numbers here just to explain that. Yes, AI and has to be trained and all of the information that we're asking just takes so much more energy. but I have to say that artificial intelligence has been used way longer than what we are seeing right now. Right now we see the boom with ChatGPT and we think this is AI. But I has been with us for a longer time. Even tools such as Google Maps are using AI, and a chatbot search uses reportedly 5 to 10 times more energy than a Google search, but still cool. It also uses AI right now, so if I'm looking for anything in Google, I will have an AI response as well. just because Google will tell you automatically which will give you a solution to your question. So for example, if you type in Leipzig to Berlin by train and you type this in in Google, it will automatically give you maybe options of trains or tell you something about this journey which train it is which I.C.E. you can take, I don't know, automatically put it on top of the search and then on the it will give you the links like we're used to in Google in general. So today Google is also using AI for giving you a better answer, for giving you an overview. And if you want to avoid this, instead of typing in which trains can I take between Leipzig and Berlin? You could type train Leipzig to Berlin minus AI, and if you type in minus I, it will automatically notice you don't want to use artificial intelligence and it is. On the one hand it is good because you if you want to avoid it, you will avoid it. And on the second hand it is a statement that you're making. If you actively are protesting the use of AI, you don't have to use AI. You can still do your Google search and avoid AI by typing in my news AI. So this is just an idea. And obviously I think in today's day and age, there's no way to escape artificial intelligence. Google is using it in the backdrop itself, probably as well, even if we're not actively looking for it. But if we want to avoid this extra layer of the use of AI, we can do this. So now I want to get into a little bit of the options that we have to use AI for the good, because obviously it has a lot of the negative things. We talked about the footprint and everything, but we can use it for our own benefit for the benefit of sustainable travel and sustainable living in general. So I'm going to give you some ideas and some opportunities that I is actually bringing to tea. Yeah. The travel atmosphere in general, first of all planning. Right. So if you want to plan smarter trip, you can do so by using AI, Chatgpt And you just type in whatever you're looking for. Let's say you want to have a Europe trip. You're going to travel through Europe for three weeks. You are going to go ahead and type in to Chatgpt, Gemini or whatever tool you want to use, you have on your phone or your computer or whatever. You're going to go ahead and type in, can I plan or plan my let's put it like this. You're going to type plan my tree week Europe trip. I want to see this countries. I want to travel sustainably. Find me options and make my itinerary. Basically. If you're asking this and you're asking for sustainable options, it will even think further than you might think. So let's say you want to go ahead and use a normal search engine, and you want to go ahead and start planning your trip. What are you going to do? Right. You're going to think, okay, I want to maybe travel by train instead of using the plane. So you are going to go ahead and look for all the options, all the countries you want to see, which train connections, which bus connections. I don't know if you want to travel by flixbus. If you want to take the train, for example, maybe you want to go hitchhiking. So you're going to think about your own options you already have in your head. Maybe you don't think about some options that's ChatGPT or Gemini or any other tool can suggest you. So that's where the the positive part comes in, basically because you will be suggested to maybe stay in an eco hostel or eco hotel, a lodge somewhere. They will think of ideas like, local markets. You can visit things that you might not think of yourself basically. And I think this is where I really can help you to make your trip more sustainable, instead of just thinking about what you already have in your mind. Because there's like sustainability is such a broad term. Transport is one thing, and obviously has a big impact, but there's many more ways to live a sustainable life. There's even food options, right? So if it's going to be like, okay, if you want to go ahead and eat some vegan food, there's nice options in the city for vegan food, you know, because obviously the meat industry also has a lot of like dairy, dairy, dairy and substrate is a dairy, right? Dairy industry, meat industry. It all has a lot of like the animal animals who are producing. Basically the meat animals are producing the milk and everything. I'm vegetarian and vegan, but I'm just saying all of these animals need to be fed and the energy being used to produce the production. The production of monoculture for feeding these animals, everything that is behind all of this is producing, well, it has a big carbon footprint, basically. So again, if you're saying like, okay, you might not even think about this when you're traveling, but if you go one day or two days, eat at a vegan place, you're already reducing your footprint again and you're doing something great, and you might even learn something new, right? I like to go to vegan places even though I'm not vegan, so I think there's so many options to explore. And you can actually or any tool, like I'm saying, can really help you with finding those. Another thing AI can be useful for is in navigation apps. For example, to reduce waste. And I'm going to give you a good example for this. We can use AI to optimize flight pets to cut contrails. And if you're seeing what our contrails. I also had to look up this word because I knew it in my language, but not in English. Controls are basically these stripes or lines which are white, that are behind the airplane. So basically, when you have a plane, there is this contents, a hot water which is a mix of like cold and humid air. I think that's because it's at such an altitude. It's condense and it freezes into tiny crystals, and those become the streaks that we are seeing when we look up and we see a plane and it's like this, like this white lines behind it. And those contrails, they don't emit CO2 emissions, but they contribute to global warming because, it's traps heat and the Earth's atmosphere by reflecting some intra red radiation back down. I, I don't know the exact details on this. Maybe I should have a podcast episode about, like, the exact emissions of flights. That could be very interesting. But what I am saying is that we could use AI to cut contrails on flight bits, for example. I don't exactly know how to, but I just know the possibility is there to build an AI and to help with optimization. And also I could help with maintenance of objects. Objects. I'm seeing aircrafts or I'm seeing trains, anything that needs maintenance. Because basically what we have is that there's sometimes we are waiting to until the train is broken or there's an issue. Obviously with the flights you have to be very extra careful. I'm sure there's a lot of controls in here, but this process can also be optimized so that we might not have to wait until something is broken. But we can see very small differences already, thanks to possibly AI tools in the future. And maybe this is already happening right now. So I think these AI driven predictive things are also really going to be helpful in the future. And then lastly, on the help of AI in tools, I want to mention the tools we're using right now, for example, to book flights to book trains. Let's not talk about booking flights. Let's talk about booking trains. But when I'm going to book a train, I'm going to v, I'm going to Deutsche Bahn, I'm going to Trainline, I'm going to national websites, I'm going to nightshirt European sleeper. I need to go to different websites. And the great thing about AI is that you don't need to do this anymore. You don't know the amount of hours and time I'm spending to plan my trips, and I'm sure you have the same. You want to go on your Europe trip you were talking about? You will spend two days trying to figure out all of the train connections you're having to think so much about. Obviously, the first thought is what I want to do, where do I want to go? But as soon as that is fixed, it will still take you such a long time to decide on the best price. The best place to look for the trains. The best, locations. Where to sleep. All of this is so tricky and it takes so much time. You will be sitting there, maybe together with your partner. You will be sitting there, with your mom. I don't know, like or alone with paper and, like, a second computer. Open your phone, open whatever it is, because it's so time consuming, right? We all have been there, and now I could actually help as as well. I'm going to take you through scenario. So when I go ahead and plan my journey, for example, I went from Portugal to Germany and I wanted to take the train and I was like, okay, for the second day of the trip, I will be in Spain, I will be in Barcelona, and I'm going to take train and I'm gone. I want to be somewhere in Germany. Let's see if AI can get to Berlin. But if not, Frankfurt is fine. So I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to type just in, in how I used to do this or how I usually do it is, is I would go to Omio, to Trainline, for example, because those aren't train comparison websites. And I will just type this in Barcelona, Frankfurt. Right. And then I will see what will come up. It will show me different trains. It will show me the amount of time needed. It will maybe even show me alternatives. Like if there's a C in between, there might be even, a ferry. In this case there's not. But there might be busses, there might be flights options as well as what I am looking for to train the train will be I will be able to book this train, but it's not one train that takes me all away. Will. I will probably have to take a train and I'm just thinking on top of my head to Paris. And then from Paris, I'm taking a second train to Frankfurt. Right. So this first train from Barcelona to Paris, I'm not able to buy on, for example, another websites which is not linked to Spain or France, which is why I'm using this comparison website, because the second train I'm going to take is between Paris and Frankfurt, and that's going to be a German train, probably, or also B to be sold on French websites. So we already have like two different places where we need to buy tickets. And that's where tools like Omio and Trainline, which are comparison tools, are super useful. It will show you the options. It will give you the option to buy the ticket directly with them. I mean, I don't know, I really like this comparison websites. The downside is there's an extra fee. Obviously they ask for money for what they are offering. So what I'm suggesting is that I would then go ahead and look, okay, the Deutsche Bahn will give me maybe a cheaper option if I go to their website. So I will go ahead. And the second part of the journey, I will already go ahead and check out on the Deutsche Bahn website. And then the first part of the journey I will be okay. Maybe this is a TGV, so I'm going to go ahead and look at the Eurostar website and see if I find it there, or if I find any other alternatives on the SNCF website, maybe in France. There's also we go, which is a very cheap option for trains. I'm not sure where I think this option that I'm talking about right now for the international train I won't have the very cheap line because it's a very big distance. But in general, I'm just saying there's so many options, so many different trains. And then I'm circling back and I hope you're still with me. I'm circling back to the comparison websites. Omio and Trainline, they currently don't have access to all of the options that are available on the internet, so they don't have all of the information that AI can Google for Now, for example, if I want to go travel between and I'm going to give another example between Belgium and France. I like to take the OuiGo because I know it's cheaper, but, you know, for example, the comparison website that I was talking about, dear, is a lack of communication between in D. I think it's like the direct integration agreements or something that they're having. And so we don't have the information of this option of the OuiGo. This comparison website, and this is just an example to showcase that this exists, but the comparison website will show you other options which might also be good but might also be more expensive. So in this case a cheaper option is not shown. And I think it's so important to think of this because AI can also help you there, because AI can do the same Google search as you can do, but it will just take away a lot of the time and the pain that you're putting into all of this effort to try to find a good connection. So that's my little rant about how AI can help you specifically with your itinerary, but I think it can even do more. Another thing AI can do is find solutions for a fun experience when you're there. We're talking over tourism. We're talking local experiences. So AI can help you to move away. Move tourists away from hotspots. We all have bucket lists, bucket list places we want to go to. So if you want to go to see Paris and you want to go to the Eiffel Tower, you have like specific museums. You want to see, You might have a bad time if you're only seeing these bucket list destinations. Why is that? Because all of the tourists are going to be in the same locations. We have streets full of people and another street empty. Why is that? Because everybody's walking the same street. Because it's close to a more famous location. Because it's just a way that, the route is telling us to go for this trip or journey. This place you want to see. All of these things can also be tackled thanks to AI. So basically it can help us to move away from hotspots. For example, it can suggest to alternative destinations and that will benefit overcrowding and avoid it basically. So what you could do, for example, is with AI, it will be able to help you to find a more real experience, an authentic experience. And I'm going to tell you a story that is about, trip that I went on with my family and I think I actually, is a good example here because what I like to do or what my family and I like to do, is when we're on a trip, we don't only want to see these hot spaces. Basically, we want to maybe find a beach where there's a bit less people. But this time around, we were in Greece and we wanted to do something more fun. We didn't know what to do, so go ahead and type in any sustainable activities in Greece. And we found that there is this option to go ahead and go to like a beekeeper. I know, so we just found a place where we could go and do some beekeeping activity, basically just like have a look at the bees, learn about why the bees are important for the environment. And then we were seeing, like, the whole process of them taking the honey and then using the honey for, making, well, honey to sell, but also to put into lip balm stuff like this thing. They were creating many things with this, but it was a very small company. This was in the middle of like nowhere on an island in Greece, you know, and we already knew which island you were going to go to. We wanted a real experience. We wanted to do something fun. And this was so nice because we got to know this. I would say it was just like a very local family, almost, who had their own business, and we had the opportunity to go ahead and have this whole awesome experience with my whole family. Are we ready to go? Only once. There was no one else at this location for the same reason as we are. They also had a store, so we met a couple of other people who were buying some things in the store, but basically the main audience, like we were the only ones during that time. And I'm just saying this as an example, because this is a type of experience that you might not think of when visiting Greece, but this is an experience that really will stuck by me and will stick by my family, because it was so awesome and it was such a that one is one of a lifetime experience. Like, I don't know, I'm not going to go in Belgium to see beekeeping. I mean, I could probably, but some thing about it's about doing it in a foreign country. It just makes activity really, really nice. So basically what I'm saying is that you can use AI as like a kind of a travel app to really help you to have some more authentic, authentic experiences, which is a win for sustainability. And yeah, some AI chatbots, like specific chatbots of cities, could even possibly exist. And even the bigger apps they can just highlight of great attractions, less crowded places. They will tell you to maybe find another beach, which is less crowded, which maybe more locals are going to, and you can use the app. And instead of saying like, I want to see this bucket list place, you can see, like I want to see something similar and I'm on this location. Can you find me something that would fit my vibe and would fit what I'm looking for? And that's again how you use AI for your own good. Next thing is accommodation, right? Where are we staying? And I think that is so important as well because we have some hotels, where we could stay. Obviously, if I'm going to go ahead and stay, for example, let's say, my next trip that I'm planning is going to be in Düsseldorf. Düsseldorf is a city in Germany. I'm going to go ahead and go to Booking.com and look for a hotel. Maybe my friend and I want to stay somewhere with breakfast included, so I will have like my options toggled in. I don't want to waste too much time on this because I'm just like, okay, it's only like a couple of days. We just want to stay somewhere. It doesn't really matter. And, we want to see the Christmas markets. Okay? So we just go ahead and do that. Find anything which is close enough to the city center. Center, an affordable price. Go ahead. Book bomb. And it's it's basically already baked and we don't have to worry about location anymore. But this hotel might not be aligned with what I'm looking for. Maybe I would be interested in an eco hotel, but I don't know of its existence because I didn't really look for it because I'm in a rush. That's also, again, where AI can help you with the time management, because you don't have the time to look for all of these information because you have a job to do. You have other stuff going on, but AI can help you. So if you're saying, like, okay, I'm going to stay in this Waldorf, do you have any sustainable options where I could stay? It might really show you some good places. And this also sustainable hotel. It sounds so difficult. Like, how can I know hotel is sustainable? Like, what are the things to look out for? It's so tricky. And I think that's also why external tools helping us with this are really interesting. I did a whole episode about sustainable, well, it was not fully about that, but it was about being vegetarian as a traveler and finding equal locations to stay. you can go ahead and listen to that episode. It's episode 39, which the Veggie Wayfarer was really, really interesting. And it was all about like the reasons why to choose for eco stays basically as well as local food. And she dove into that way deeper than we can do right now. But I'm just saying, like, there's so many options and maybe I don't want to stay in a hotel where they're giving away everything in like plastic bags, where the breakfast is not locally sourced. But from a big supermarket. Like if I want to be mindful of those things, I can. But I again need to put in so much time and that's where I comes in. So basically it will help you to find some green certified hotels. And then last thing is that it can also help small businesses If you have a small tour operator, it's can really benefit from AI for marketing I've been reading that 80% of tourism is run by small firms still today. And there's so many more people who are using big firms because those are the ones that that are very known. Right? Because if I'm going to find an activity, I might go ahead and look at, for example, get your guide or something because it's a more famous brand. But I might not just find your small business by myself. Like I was saying earlier with the bee activity, I might book it over a third party instead of booking directly with you as a tour operator or with them as a tour operator. Basically, you might not be a tour operator. The person listening right now, but you know what I mean. So I will help small tour operators to maybe put themselves out there a little bit better. It could generate polished websites, have like help with social media, post help with translations like just help them level up without having a big, big team. And I know that I also is again like it is maybe taking away some jobs, but in this case, some people can't afford to pay someone to make a full websites or make the translations, and then this is where AI can be helpful for small companies who don't have the budgets. So it can really help small brands to polish your marketing and maybe boost their company basically. Now I want to go ahead and make you aware of some interesting apps you might want to look at, depending on what you're looking for. So I have not used all of these apps, but I have heard about them, I've researched about them and have checked out their websites. So I think these are very, very interesting to look into. First of all, I want to talk about easy trips. I, they offer personalized trip planning. So you have to give your destination dates and maybe interest budgets. And the app will give you day by day itineraries. And the good thing about this place is that it suggests eco friendly accommodations and it also suggests low impact activities. It will even give you data about like weather, local events and hidden gems. Is what you're seeing. So I think it is really interesting. And AI is involved because they are learning from like user preferences. They are using AI powered recommendations for local insights, for example. And it will help you to find like optimal routes, budget optimization and stuff like this. So it has some type of like ChatGPT AI in the app basically. Second of all, there's Biliki AI. Biliki AI is a platform that is aimed for eco conscious travelers, as they say themselves, and it's offering itineraries again with eco friendly accommodations and experiences to support local communities, local economies. And I think, what is really nice as well is that they are having features to estimate the carbon footprint reduction of your travel choice, and they will also suggest you to maybe find lower impact transportation and accommodation. again, their way of using AI is by having like AI generated itineraries based on your input, which is like destination dates, interest and so on, others like this supporting this and the supporting sustainable metric part, which is about carbon footprint and sustainability scores, is integrated in the AI logic that they have going on. Another application I want to talk about is explorer. Geo explorer is a travel tech startup. Actually based in Luxembourg. Fun fact about Luxembourg public transport is free. Love it. It's a small country, I know, but still, how fun is it to have free public transport? I love Luxembourg for this reason. Explorer is specified in sustainable travel. Specifically, they're offering for like they're offering CO2 footprint calculations, a sustainability score, and automatic carbon offsetting via partnerships with no extra charge. And I'm saying, again, no extra charge. I think this is important to state, and I'm just going to pause here on everything I'm seeing and my list of things I want to mention. The fact that so many companies and I'm quoting, for example, Ryanair or other flights companies, they're offering offsets. First of all, offsets is one thing, I don't know how good an offset really is. This is a whole another conversation to have, but the fact that you have to pay extra to have a lower impact instead of them saying activity like, okay, we know that we are really doing some bigger, we have like some problems with being sustainable. Like for every person that's flying with us, we're putting a statement and we're going to actively choose to not, make you pay for an offsetting. But we are really willing to do this from our own perspective. A lot of companies, they are putting it again on us as a consumers instead of doing something themselves. So although I think it is nice that they're offering this, it would be nicer if they would just provide it, do something, do an active change, help, basically. moving on. I think explorer, they are using AI and the way that it's helping with like search engines. So they are Deviloping AI tools to make eco friendly options faster and effortless. So again, talking about what we were mentioning earlier about the fact that it's like finding travel itineraries is so time consuming, this app is actively trying to make it easier, specifically for sustainability reasons. Love that a lot. Then there's another app called Good Wings. Good wings is actually not really, as interesting for the private person. I mean, it could be, but it's actually providing information more for like corporate travel business trips. And I think this is actually something really interesting as well, because how many people have a friend or family member that needs to take a flight in Europe specifically, but I'm sure in other countries or continents you have the same issue to another country, to a meeting which they could literally have been to by train, or they didn't, in my opinion, need to be there. They could just literally hop on a call, but they want to have a meeting on the location and they are flying there instead of taking the train because they think trains are unreliable. Anyway, there's so many reasons. And I think what Goodwings is doing good. Haha. No pun intended here is they're helping like companies to maybe cut down these emissions a bit. So they're offering automatic travel emissions calculators and they're helping to like have reports on the team and on the emissions like emission reports basically. And they're also helping with offsetting. So for example, doing like tree planting or sustainable fuel with their climate account that you could have as a corporate business. So the way that they're using AI is because they're basically an AI powered travel planner. So they claim that they do use AI to support sustainable decisions, such as suggesting lower emission travel modes, forecast seeing CO2 and other metrics, helping organizations to set carbon budgets, those are a lot of terms I'm throwing at you. But this is actually really interesting. Now another app I want to talk about on top of my list. And I think this is the last like specific itinerary app I want to talk about is Komoot. I feel like a lot of people already know Komoot. Komoot is a very fun app. For those who don't know, Komoot is an outdoor navigation application, so it's basically like an app. You could go ahead and look if you want to go on a hike, if you want to go bicycle on a bicycle journey, stuff like this, like mountain biking, running, exploring, nature, anything. Like you have this app and you can go ahead and plan your journey in the app on your computer or whatever. And you could even extract the geographic information to put it in your watch or to put it in your GPS to then go explore the location and even continue to be on the right track. If you don't have internet or Wi-Fi or whatever is going on in the middle of the nature. Right? So it's very, very useful. I'm a big friend of Kermode and I don't know that they're using AI. To their defense, they also don't claim that they are using AI. There's no where to be read like AI powered route suggestion. But I do think that they're using machine learning, but it's not already marketed as AI. So basically they would have some features like personal route suggestions, filtering by user preferences, they're saying that they have thousands of tailors adventures recommended based on your favorite sports. And the fact that they're recommending things could make sure that they're actually also using AI. And I think this is like the bottom part of AI compared to the other tools I was talking about who are actively really using AI. But at the same time, I really like to mention Komoot because come on, they're doing such a good impact and they're really, really nice. If you didn't check out yet, this is not sponsored. I know, but I'm just really a big fan. Go ahead and check it out for your next hike. Your next trip. It's free. Literally. You can just use a free account. You don't need to do anything. Yeah, that's about the apps. But then again, another app you might want to use is just ChatGPT, right? Because like we already said, we already have the apps on our phones. We have Gemini, we have ChatGPT, everything. ready to go, basically. So try prompts, try, for example, plan a five day eco friendly itinerary in Madrid by train. Try. I'm thinking on top of moment try. List of budget green hotels in Berlin. Mentioned like specific prompts that you want to look for if you're traveling to certain places. what I really like in general about the use of AI in travel apps is the carbon information you can get from there. So there's like predictions that they can do. They can see for flights, for trains, for any alternative mode of transport you want to use, which one is better, which ones may be, the better way to go instead of like going on like two flights, it's probably better to fly one big flight. It might be more expensive, but it will be more eco friendly. And there's so many, many, many things we could talk about. Also, I would just in general say I encourage any app which is a bit more about slow travel, right? For example, I was already mentioning Omio and Trainline. But you actually also have things like Eurail or Interrail, whatever, fits for you because, you know, Interrail, probably Interrail is the company that you're using if you're European. And for the non Europeans, this same company is called Eurail because they're going to Europe instead of being into Europe. Interrail I actually think the fund, the people who founded, who chose these names, it's actually very smart somehow. And then there's also things like Rome2Rio De also have features to compare trains with flights. There's just so many options and you really don't need to look so far for it. And if you want to find more again, more comparison websites again, ChatGPT will be your friend to find those comparison websites. Then lastly, I know that offsetting and green choices are a bit controversial sometimes, and offsetting. I mean, we could do a whole episode about this, it is a bit controversial because you could say like, oh, I'm planning a tree, but the tree also will need to be taken care of. Maybe it was better to leave the nature be and the tree will grow from itself, because it used to be a forest, and now we are taking away all the ground on this forest and then putting a lot of like the same tree. So it's becoming a monoculture, which sometimes even with trees that are not meant to be in this location, which is crazy to me. Instead of letting nature just recover itself, giving it the opportunity to recover itself, and then having like a very nice biodiversity, you will have better grounds. You will have more animals. I mean, I'm not 100% against offsetting. I probably also need to learn more about this, but I just know it's controversial and it's not like, oh yeah, this is the solution for like anything, I'm just going to fly. And then this is my solution. There are also like AI-backed platforms that I was already mentioning, and they will help you to find. Yeah. Just like greener choices because there's more than just offsetting basically is what I'm trying to say and what I'm doing or what I'm trying to do. We're taking the train so much is is a part of those options, such as everything else that was already mentioned in this podcast. Then lastly, what I want to say is that I want to keep this on a light note. I know that I'm really sharing a lot of information, and I hope this is very valuable, but it's also up to you to choose and decide what you want to do. There's so many options, and that's the great part of it. You can choose one option and you're already doing a good job. So if you want to go ahead and check out these applications that I was, I showed you if you want to go ahead and for your next city trip, you're going to use AI and ask it for some good prompts so you find sustainable alternatives. All of these small things will already have an impact. So I'm I know and I'm aware of climate anxiety and sometimes it's overwhelming to know everything we have to do what we should do. Sometimes people are saying like, okay, well, I don't care. There's nothing I can do anyway. So there's so many different ways we can take this, but I feel like every small action is an action. And I really want to emphasize that. We also have a lot of beautiful things coming towards us and a lot of opportunities, and we can learn from all the disasters that happened. And hopefully use all of this information. Gather it all and make our options better. So we are learning and improving and self-improving. And the world is changing in the good direction, and not only in a way that yeah, we're not 100% happy with it. Also, I want to say that AI can be an ally. AI can help you with creating and finding more sustainable choices. And also, one thing I do want to mention about the person that was actually going to be on this podcast is that he was seeing AI under very, very bright daylight, and I don't know if I see it as bright as he was, but he was saying that he thinks that I will find a solution to its own issue. So basically, right now I is taking so much energy. But he was also saying, yeah, but AI can calculate and find things that we need ages to find. We don't know the solutions to everything but computer science can find out so much more opportunities, options trial, unfair failure. All of these things are so much easier in the age of AI. So basically he was saying that he thinks or believes that I will find a way to reduce its own carbon footprint. And although I really want to believe this, and I think this is such an optimistic way to go about it, I also think like, yeah, but it depends who is building AI, right? I mean, if you're building AI to build an empire and to make a lot of profit from it, maybe, eco concerns are not your biggest concern, right? But I do agree on a certain level that the capacity, the options, the ability of AI to really find solutions is available. Like why not? Right. So maybe there will be a clean energy cloud that will let us all enjoy AI without any guilt. I don't know what the future will bring us. I do know that the options are very big, and that AI is helping us to create more options. We can find new fuel options. We can find new materials. We can test out so many more things and options and foresee or like look in the future. And we cannot look in the future, but like see kind of predict things. That's the kind of word I was looking for. Like we can predict way more and faster to innovate and to improve sustainable choices thanks to AI. So it's not all bad. Then lastly, I want to tell you that. We can make choices and we have everything in our hands. Okay. So if you are after this whole conversation, you're still against AI. Go ahead and use the tip that I was telling you. Use Google “-AI” and you will be freed from, like, the major part of AI. On the other hand, if you are using AI, don't on the use it for finding, I don't know, cheap flights or anything, or for talking about your relationship drama or whatever you're using it for. Also, try using it for the good. There's so many options, and I think I know, I think I did a good job in explaining all of those. At least this is my perception of it. And I'm really excited to to see what the future is gonna bring for us. So yes, tech will changed this whole travel game, but if we play it good and we play it for the planet's good, then sustainable travel is still possible. And I really want to believe that there's so many good options and good solutions out there. So go ahead, check all of the options out. Check it for yourself. This was travel devil brought to you by me, your host Clara. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. If you want to continue the conversation or suggest any future guests, you can go to my Instagram at Clara Franklin. Take care and I will see you next Thursday.